Compliments (non-creepy)

[blimix]

Our blood drive was today. I often see the same phlebotomist, and told her, "I just get to lie here and read, while you're doing all the work. But I have noticed that you're working very efficiently." She smiled as she affirmed that she has gotten the hang of it over the past several months. Upon my entry, she had given me the same pleased look of recognition that my regular dental hygienist does, ever since I let her know that I appreciate the skill and care that she brings to her job. They both let me know that they look forward to seeing me next time.

I guarantee you, 100%, that the happy-to-see-me response is not because I'm some sexy, confident, alpha-male beast (whose stylized silver ring on the wrong hand does not much resemble a wedding band, though it is). Honestly, I feel, at heart, like a shy, awkward person who has practiced being nice to people enough to form a habit strong enough to overcome my introversion.

A compliment can make someone's day, or week. Complimenting someone's work is particularly pleasing: People put a lot of time and effort into getting good at things; appreciation of the results is rewarding.

Complimenting someone's appearance can be nice, but it comes with a couple of caveats. The first is that a person's appearance is much less under their own control than their work is, and so pride in appearance is not nearly as meaningful. The second is that it can come off as creepy and even threatening if the context suggests a possibility that the complimenter is aiming to get something in return, or is objectifying the recipient.

Hint: This creepy context usually means a man complimenting the appearance of a woman who is engaged in any activity at all other than actively trying to meet men. ("If you think women are crazy, you’ve never had a dude go from hitting on you to literally threatening to kill you in the time it takes you to say, 'no thanks'." - Kendra Wells.) A man's peaceful intentions alone cannot change this: Assuming she's not a mind reader (she's not), a sufficiently experienced woman's perception of the context (in which men's desire for and objectification of women encourages subhuman treatment including violence) is the same either way. There are workarounds for this: A female acquaintance of mine was quite pleased when a man said, "Excuse me, I just wanted to let you know that you are very beautiful," and then crossed the road and walked away before she could respond. His behavior clarified that he wasn't seeking anything from her, which allowed her to receive the compliment without suspicion.

When my wife and I are out, she's the one who delivers the well received compliments on someone's stunning hair, eyes, or dress. I don't even try. Though if I had to, I'd probably start with, "We just wanted to let you know..." In public, and establishing our existing relationship with the word "we," I doubt anyone would read desirous intentions into it.

Getting farther into speculation: I don't attend fandom conventions, but I love the costume photos and videos. If I were there in person, and wanted to compliment a woman's costume, I suspect that (if the costume is not highly covering) "I love your outfit!" could be interpreted as, "I love how you're showing off your body with that outfit! Thank you for enabling me to objectify you!" So I might instead try, "Great work on that outfit! It must have taken countless hours!" See that? I switched it from complimenting their appearance to complimenting their work, and clarifying my focus on their costume rather than their body. People familiar with convention etiquette: Am I on track here? Is there a better way to do it? (Edited: The original "better version" was phrased as a question rather than a statement, which Beth caught. A question demands time and attention, neither of which you are entitled to, and a question will also be wearying when asked by every fifth passer-by.)

It's usually less tricky for people to compliment men, because the social context includes both a much lower chance of objectification, and a much lower chance that any objectification would result in violence. There has been a time or two that I was pretty sure a guy complimenting my appearance was hitting on me, but because I'm not an insecure, homophobic douchebag, I didn't mind. (Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women.) Outside of the context of systemic violence (and tiresome repetition), the attention was merely flattering.

I'm down a pint of blood, so please forgive me and let me know if I have to clarify or correct anything here.

Comments

[beth_leonard]

Love it: "Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

I try not to talk to anyone I don't know well about anything obvious. My old boss was nearly 7 feet tall and didn't play sports. Every time the (engineering) team would go out to restaurants several people would comment on his height and ask if he played basketball. He took it well, but I imagine it got annoying. I was tired of hearing the comments, and I wasn't even him.

I don't do con's often, but I think someone with a great outfit doesn't want to have a conversation with lots of random strangers. So at a Con where the point is to dress up and have people admire your handiwork, "Great outfit, that looks like it took a long time to make!" would be fine in passing, "How long did it take you?" is like asking "Do you play basketball?" because it requires a response and is trying to engage the stranger who may prefer not to be engaged by the 15th person to ask a question that hour.

If they are standing by themselves by the wall looking all decked out, lonely, and scared, then maybe yes, go ahead and initiate a conversation. But if they're with friends or with a vendor, then don't ask a question, and at most say, "Great workmanship!" or "Awesome idea!" and keep walking if you feel you must say something.

I suppose if you are wearing a matching costume from the same slightly obscure fandom then it could be non-annoying to engage further, but otherwise I'd advise against.
--Beth

[blimix.livejournal.com]

Good thoughts; thank you.

[whildbill.livejournal.com]

I would also note, (granted, it's from my own viewpoint, therefore male, self centered, and improper) that asking saying anything that can be construed as a question, might open me to tens or dozens of minutes of conversation, with a random stranger, that I (very likely) don't wish to engage in.

If I did cons... I'd probably go with a slightly more forward version of what I do nowadays when I meet eyes with an attractive woman on the sidewalk- A nod and a smile, mouth firmly shut, and keep walking. At a con, it might be a nod and a smile and a thumbs up.

[whildbill.livejournal.com]

>>"It's usually less tricky for people to compliment men, because the social context includes both a much lower chance of objectification, and a much lower chance that any objectification would result in violence."<<

However, I think most women will hesitate to give any strange man a compliment, on the thought that he might take it as a sign of interest, and try to talk to her, etc.

[whildbill.livejournal.com]

>>"Hint: This creepy context usually means a man complimenting the appearance of a woman who is engaged in any activity at all other than actively trying to meet men."<<

Which I agree with. On the other hand... From my male, self-centered, and therefore incorrect(and no sarcasm is intended in that last)viewpoint... The only places I can think of where I might be, where women are intending to meet men, are bars, and OKCupid meet-ups. Two things which I pretty much never do. (Because I'm almost never interested in the type of women I'll meet there.)

So, by definition, I should never give a woman a compliment.


(As a note- I have, over the course of the last year, dialed any interaction with a woman on the street (or any other similar place) back to a 'nod and brief smile' should we actually meet eyes.)

[blimix.livejournal.com]

Ah, good point. I was thinking purely in terms of not discomforting the receiver of the compliment, without consideration for the giver. This might have been because it was outside the scope of the discussion, or because I trust people to not give compliments when they feel it might put them at risk of receiving unwanted attention, but it might also have been because male privilege kept me from having to think about the safety of the giver at all. Thank you for catching that.

[blimix.livejournal.com]

Nope: Read that sentence more carefully. Since you never wind up in that context, it is best not to compliment a woman's *appearance*. That doesn't put other compliments out of bounds.

[whildbill.livejournal.com]

True.

But... I find it difficult to give a sincere compliment on a low-level job (aka a 20-year-old being a cashier at the supermarket. Not to say she is doing a bad job, just... It feels to me like *anyone* should be able to do that job correctly and efficiently, most of the time). Ditto for most other retail/cashier/non-skilled oriented positions. (and that stands regardless of gender)

Then...we make the leap to women in engineering positions, r IT, or business owners, and such of similar rank... Most of whose work I simply never encounter. Or, when I do, I don't know I do.

And... I really dislike giving anyone a generic compliment- "Good job!" -largely feels very false when it comes out of my mouth, regardless of who the intended recipient is. If I can't give more specifics, as to *why* I feel it is a "good job", then I don't feel like I am actually paying the person(regardless of gender) an actual compliment. I feel like I am making a social pleasantry, the same as "Have a nice day."



(In part, some of this is just plain social awkwardness- a lot of the things that the rest of you regard as 'normal', and use to get by every day, feel very false and insincere, and uncomfortable to me.)

[blimix.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't suggest giving a generic or insincere compliment. Finding grounds for a compliment (of the sort I have described) does involve interacting with people, or at least witnessing their labor or the fruits thereof, so if you don't do any of that, yes, you're stuck. If this is a problem, you may wish to evaluate the extent to which you are content with your hermitage.