Discussion of poetry
Dec. 8th, 2020 05:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
blimixSome time ago, I posted my thoughts on what makes something poetry, and got some feedback/critique. A high school classmate, Eric Bernadin, had his own thoughts on the subject, and proposed a discussion over Zoom. He recorded and posted it here. As one might expect for a Zoom call, it is 40 minutes long.
I had some comments and self-corrections to make after watching it, but couldn't post them in comments on the video itself. So they're here:
15:25 I paraphrased the answer that I was given. My friends Rodney and Allison both said that if someone intends their composition to be poetry, then it is.
24:56 Feel free to pick apart what I said about "It's essentially its own language with a shared vocabulary with [Standard American] English," as opposed to calling AAE a dialect of English. My understanding of this was strongly influenced over 20 years ago by a friend who compared the formation of Modern English (the stuff after Middle English) with the formation of AAE. If it seems reasonable to call modern English a language (rather than a dialect of Anglo-Saxon with grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciations inherited from Latin, Greek, and Anglo-Norman French*), then it seems reasonable to call AAE a language. But then, I'm also with Randall Monroe about classifying dinosaurs. ("By any reasonable definition, T. Rex is more closely related to sparrows than to stegasaurus. Birds aren't _descended_ from dinosaurs, they _are_ dinosaurs.") So, please take my classifications with a grain of salt.
* "English isn't a language, it's three languages stacked on top of each other wearing a trenchcoat." - des-zimbits
25:02 I corrected "English" to "Standard English". "Standard American English" is the term I meant.
25:50 "AAE" versus "AAVE". I was unaware of the distinction, so I did a web search: Opinions vary. It appears that the two terms are synonymous, but can have different usages. Some people omit "vernacular" unless they are specifically referring to informal language. (Makes sense! Otherwise, there's an implication that all use of Black English is informal, which seems kinda... White supremacist.) Apparently, "AAL" (African American Language) is now the hip term among academics.
27:00 "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" was a quote by Pablo Picasso.
29:45 I was wrong about what I had said before. I had in fact said, "... the use of metaphor," not, "the use of metaphor as a poetic device when it's not necessary". The "unnecessary" bit came up elsewhere. (So my earlier statement about metaphor being a signifier of poetry had needed amending.)
32:05 I misunderstood the question. Yes, the phrase "flowery language" is clearly a metaphor.
It was a fun discussion! Thanks, Eric, for having me on your show.
I had some comments and self-corrections to make after watching it, but couldn't post them in comments on the video itself. So they're here:
15:25 I paraphrased the answer that I was given. My friends Rodney and Allison both said that if someone intends their composition to be poetry, then it is.
24:56 Feel free to pick apart what I said about "It's essentially its own language with a shared vocabulary with [Standard American] English," as opposed to calling AAE a dialect of English. My understanding of this was strongly influenced over 20 years ago by a friend who compared the formation of Modern English (the stuff after Middle English) with the formation of AAE. If it seems reasonable to call modern English a language (rather than a dialect of Anglo-Saxon with grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciations inherited from Latin, Greek, and Anglo-Norman French*), then it seems reasonable to call AAE a language. But then, I'm also with Randall Monroe about classifying dinosaurs. ("By any reasonable definition, T. Rex is more closely related to sparrows than to stegasaurus. Birds aren't _descended_ from dinosaurs, they _are_ dinosaurs.") So, please take my classifications with a grain of salt.
* "English isn't a language, it's three languages stacked on top of each other wearing a trenchcoat." - des-zimbits
25:02 I corrected "English" to "Standard English". "Standard American English" is the term I meant.
25:50 "AAE" versus "AAVE". I was unaware of the distinction, so I did a web search: Opinions vary. It appears that the two terms are synonymous, but can have different usages. Some people omit "vernacular" unless they are specifically referring to informal language. (Makes sense! Otherwise, there's an implication that all use of Black English is informal, which seems kinda... White supremacist.) Apparently, "AAL" (African American Language) is now the hip term among academics.
27:00 "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" was a quote by Pablo Picasso.
29:45 I was wrong about what I had said before. I had in fact said, "... the use of metaphor," not, "the use of metaphor as a poetic device when it's not necessary". The "unnecessary" bit came up elsewhere. (So my earlier statement about metaphor being a signifier of poetry had needed amending.)
32:05 I misunderstood the question. Yes, the phrase "flowery language" is clearly a metaphor.
It was a fun discussion! Thanks, Eric, for having me on your show.
